124/2000 Stock Suspension Coil Springs

Tech chat w/ Marc Matzer
Bob

Weber 30 DICA 1 on 850 Sport Spider ('72)

Post by Bob » Sun Jan 10, 2010 4:45 pm

OK, I took the carb off again, took it apart and drilled out a couple of the lead plugs in the body adjacent to the main jets. Here's a photo of the plugs I removed and cleaned (A and B only). I started by cutting a small hole in a piece of tape to cover the adjacent holes that shavings might get into. :D

Image

I then drilled out the plugs using a small bit and cordless drill. Then, I removed the remainder of the plug with an easy-out working slowly and carefully. Didn't damage the base of the carb.

Image

Then, once I cleaned the holes, I refilled the tops with split-shot from my fishing gear. I just pounded them in and shaved off the remainder with a razor.

Image

Unfortunately, after getting it all back together, it fired right up, but didn't idle any better than before. I'm going out now to try and figure this out.
Last edited by Bob on Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:17 am, edited 4 times in total.

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PaulB
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Nice Pics

Post by PaulB » Mon Jan 11, 2010 12:41 am

Nice pictures Bob.
My 30DICA is still runnig nice, with just a little fluffiness as the secondary opens up...
It will have to wait untill spring to play with the jetting some more...
Overall a learning experience. I had issues with the following before getting it right:
I drilled the plugs in your pictures after discovering that I couldnt blow throug the idle.
I had a non-gas rated hose just after my inline filter that was disintegrating from the inside and gumming up the works.
Someone had used gasket sealant on the main paper gasket, which never hardened and kept leaching out over time...(Replaced with un-molested paper)
I had the throttle shafts out, and pushed the secondary bearing/seal in too far when rebuilding, this led to slop, and intermittent vac leaks, Upon re-assembly, I tightened the shaft nut, and let it seat everything, this worked much better.
The fuel float should be spaced, (Used a drill bit for sizing)
The inline fuel filter I was using needed trimming to match the line, and not drop pressure. (This took a while to find)
Ill go back through my notes and see what else Ive forgotten.
Good Luck,
Paul
Paul Blaylock, P.E.
Yellow Fiat 850 Sport Coupe, Series II
Black 2004 Mazda 3S
Silver 2004 Chrysler Crossfire

Bob

Post by Bob » Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:23 pm

Paul,

Well, I had to resort to the old carb base. I had switched to another base because I wanted to resolve an issue with the threads in the mounting plate that had become stripped. I had the carb off and discovered a piece of helicoil sticking out. I tried to thread it back in place, but no go. I thought this other base could be fixed up, so I cannibalized parts from both and stuck it on the car. When it didn't run right, I drilled out the plugs as mentioned before, but the passages were already clear. So, I put essentially my old carb back in place and it came to idle just fine. Now, of course, it won't accelerate past about 2700rpm before stuttering real bad. I thought at first it was timing, but I've tried several settings and get similar results. I hadn't changed the distributor at all, so it's *probably* not that. I did do a bit of work on the carb however, so that's my next challenge. I'll start by doing a complete tune-up with timing light to get the timing right, then adjust the volume control screw, and so on. I already made sure the float adjustment was correct. Fuel is getting to the engine just fine.

By the way, were the holes I indicated in my photos the same ones you worked?

Thanks for the suggestions,

-Bob

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PaulB
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Passageways

Post by PaulB » Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:53 am

Yes, they're the same. In my case the carb had sat with gas in it, and all of the interrior passages were filled with varnish. Even after a long soak in cleaner, I still had to clean out the 'plugged' passages.

It does sound like a mixture/timing issue to me.
I've had stumbling issues related to...
Too much initial advance and the centrifugal advance takes it further out...
Clogged jets & passage ways leading to lean mixtures as the throttle is opened.
Changing my jets from stock would often mask other issues, and allow me to keed driving. But, after tracking them all down I'm back to original.

It sounds like your on top of it.
+Paul
Paul Blaylock, P.E.
Yellow Fiat 850 Sport Coupe, Series II
Black 2004 Mazda 3S
Silver 2004 Chrysler Crossfire

Bob

Post by Bob » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:54 pm

PaulB,

When you tune your engine up, do you use a timing light to get it set to zero degrees at idle (warm) as the instructions all say? I've tried and tried that, but it does NOT run right at zero degrees.

By the way, I just tracked down the correct hose connections for the emission control systems and put it back to stock. I'm wondering if that may have had anything to do with my inability to get it tuned easily before. I haven't started it up since getting the plumbing right - will do in the morning...

-Bob

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PaulB
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Timing

Post by PaulB » Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:17 am

I haven't used a light on her yet...A shiny digital one was on my Christmas list, but hasn't yet appeared.
I'll see if I can dig up the tuning text that I follow...I just don't remember if it is from Faza, my Haynes manual, or somewhere else.
All of this assumes a warm engine...Sometimes mine can take 10min to settle down : )
The timing/idle mix are related, and alternating tuning between the two will allow for setting a lower idle, and mix position.
I start with a neutral timing (by ear), and then set a pretty good idle condition. Then I move the timing again, then set a final idle.
From memory, I believe my timing procedure reads...
Set timing by ear at idle. Advance the distributor until
mis-fire, (mark location); Retard until dies or poor idle (mark location); Come back 1/4 distance of the two marks.
This should set things up to be slightly retarded at idle, which gives room for the advance curve at speed, and will also move the idle lower.
Ultimately if your driving at speed and she pings when you get into her, you're dangerously too advanced.
Paul Blaylock, P.E.
Yellow Fiat 850 Sport Coupe, Series II
Black 2004 Mazda 3S
Silver 2004 Chrysler Crossfire

Bob

Post by Bob » Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:48 pm

OK, that did it. I was first afraid that I may have had the distributor 180 degrees off, but I guess it wouldn't run at all if that were the case. Anyway, I warmed it up and put the timing light and dwell meter on it. The dwell (point gap) was WAY off (about 20 degrees instead of 57-63). Once I corrected that, and got it re-timed, all was well. Took it out for a test run and it's now back to the same expected extremely high horsepower thrust against the back of the seat as before. ;-)

I looked at the fast idle switch to see if it would advance the throttle when pressed now that I had all the vacuum hoses in the right place. Well, the switch was frozen in the open position, so that's another minor job some day. Oh well...

Thanks again you all for your help!

-Bob

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Muck
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Re: 124/2000 Stock Suspension Coil Springs

Post by Muck » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:47 pm

I know I'm diggin up an old thread here, but I keep chasing the same idle problems. I just drilled/removed the plugs & was able to blow air & carb cleaner down thru those drilled plugs, the cleaner would come out of those jets in the top & out of the venturi. I then remove the jets in the side of the carb & shot cleaner thru there. It seems to be coming out of the same places. Is this what I'm looking for? It seems that I have good flow. I would figure if I was plugged up, the carb cleaner would blow back out of the hole I was shooting it in.

Also, what's the purpose of re-plugginf them? There's no adjacent hole in the top gasket.

Thanks in advance for your help.

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PaulB
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Re: 124/2000 Stock Suspension Coil Springs

Post by PaulB » Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:24 pm

You are correct that the passageways should be sealed by the lid, but I don't count on this.
I assume that the factory sealed them to keep tiny amounts of stuff from clogging the needle valves. It gets really small in there.

The lid also has a loop back passage that should be checked.
Flatness can be checked with the same 1/4" drill bit that is used to set the float level.

Vacuum leaks around the top lip, and butterfly shafts are fiendish.

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Muck
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Re: 124/2000 Stock Suspension Coil Springs

Post by Muck » Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:48 am

Yep, I've diagnosed a vacuum leak at the primary throttle shaft. (spraying car cleaner there produces a surge in idle) Any good carb rebuilders that will sleeve the shaft?

Marc
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Re: 124/2000 Stock Suspension Coil Springs

Post by Marc » Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:54 am

I would contact pierce manifold and see what they recommend.They might be able to re-bush that for you,what about the throttle shaft,if that is worn,you will need that redone as well,buying a replacement carb might be ,or finding a used one for parts.Thad Kirk is an 850 freak,drop him a line,he will know where to go for that carb.

noah1
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Re: weber 30dica

Post by noah1 » Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:58 pm

weber 30dica,does anyone know where the 1mm or so steel ball i found in the float bowl goes.
i am betting it goes in the center jets bore that sticks up higher than the other 2 and has a lead plug in it, but dont know for sure.it must be the accelerator pump check valve ball.
all the diagrams i can find on the net dont show it.
my old book shows it but it is too vague to tell where it actually goes.
thanks
kevin

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PaulB
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Unknown Ball Identification

Post by PaulB » Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:56 pm

Sorry if this comes too late,
There are some excellent cut-away carb views here: http://www.webercarburatori.com/?p=handbook&s=2
Near the bottom of the page FIG42 A & B shows the accelerator check ball below the Pump Discharge Blanking Needle.

noah1
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Re: 124/2000 Stock Suspension Coil Springs

Post by noah1 » Tue Aug 19, 2014 5:10 pm

Thank you for the help.it runs without the steel ball i found in the float bowl.id rather it have the ball in it where it is supposed to be.silly me??!!
most diagrams dont show the ball.
Thank you again!
kevin in california
i am trying to save 2 850 spiders from the junk yard.
lots of work and money but i am sure they will appreciate it.

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